<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Zhaneille,</div><div>Would you mind sharing your specific attribute bundle you share with vendors? I'm interested in creating a similar bundle in coordination with our IT department.</div><div>Thank you,</div><div>Sunshine</div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">--<br></div><div dir="ltr"><div>Sunshine Carter</div><div>Director, Collection Strategy & eResource Management | University Libraries | <a href="http://lib.umn.edu" target="_blank">lib.umn.edu</a></div><div>University of Minnesota | <a href="http://umn.edu" target="_blank">umn.edu</a> | 612-625-5615</div><div>she, her, hers<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 7:28 PM Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list via Eril-l <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
As Chandler said, some libraries work with their IAM departments to create a default SSO attribute bundle. The US has its own federation, InCommon, but I'm not sure how many librarians are aware of it, PLUS not all vendors are a part of the federation.</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
If we collectively decide that we only share a specific attribute bundle a la Cornell, then vendors will have to meet those base expectations.</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
A key part of pushing back against digital surveillance is understanding which attributes are anonymous, pseudonymous, or personalized, and being able to tell vendor IT that my library can support this attribute, not that one.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Zhaneille</div>
<div id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485Signature">
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">Zhaneille Green (she/her)</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">E-Access Librarian</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">Electronic Resources Access & Discovery</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(36,36,36)">Duke University Libraries</span></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
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<b>From:</b> Eril-l <<a href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org</a>> on behalf of <a href="mailto:eril-l-request@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l-request@lists.eril-l.org</a> <<a href="mailto:eril-l-request@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l-request@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 10, 2025 4:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a> <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Eril-l Digest, Vol 132, Issue 7</div>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't need?<br>
data grab? (Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list)<br>
2. Re: SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't<br>
need? data grab? (Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list)<br>
3. Re: SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't<br>
need? data grab? (Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list)<br>
4. Primary Research Group has published the Survey of Library<br>
Science Faculty: Developments in Library Science Curriculum, ISBN<br>
979-8-88517-320-9 (Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 15:37:20 +0000<br>
From: Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list<br>
<<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
To: ERIL-L listserv <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Eril-l] SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't<br>
need? data grab?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:mailman.781.1762789079.464760.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">mailman.781.1762789079.464760.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi, all.<br>
<br>
I'm still trying to understand what the vendor movements away from IP authentication and especially for off-campus users mean, and have gotten some help from Gemini.<br>
UPEI belongs to the Canadian Access Federation (CAF), and we use MS Azure as our SSO system for our IdP.<br>
<br>
As I understand it, all our vendors need to know about our users is the same as what they knew about them when using ezproxy for off-campus access, which is that this user has authenticated as a UPEI valid user.<br>
<br>
According to a sample test I ran, our IdP doesn't send out any specific attributes, but it does tell the service provider that this person is a valid UPEI person and provides a persistent "name" code that is anonymized.<br>
<br>
Below is how Gemini explained it:<br>
So, while the service provider learned nothing about your personal identity (not your name, role, or email), it learned everything it needs to know about your institutional context.<br>
By accepting this SAML assertion, the service provider is implicitly saying: "I have received a digitally signed, unforgeable message from the official authentication authority for UPEI, and that authority vouches for the fact that they have successfully authenticated
one of their valid users."<br>
This is the core of federated identity: authentication is handled entirely by the home institution. The service provider doesn't need to know who you are, only that UPEI has confirmed you are a legitimate member of its community.<br>
<br>
However, almost all of the library providers I have dealt with so far to configure SSO authentication have required us to take extra steps to provide them with more specific "attributes" like "eduPersonScopedAffiliation", and sometimes even PII (personally
identifiable information) including first and last name and email address.<br>
<br>
The vendor could use that persistent "pseudonym" code allow this specific UPEI user to create whatever kind of personalized account services (eg saving searches) that vendor's platform has.<br>
<br>
So it seems to my suspicious mind that our vendors are taking advantage of the move towards SSO to get from us far more user-specific data than they actually need to provide the services we are paying for. They didn't have a problem for decades with providing
their content to users who offered nothing more than our Ezproxy server's IP address. But suddenly they "need" PII to provide that same access?<br>
<br>
Is anyone/any library organization pushing back on this? What can we librarians do? Do we have to work with our IT depts to convince them to get their SAML/SSO providers (like Microsoft for Azure) to include more anonymizing options so we can send fake names
and email addresses when our vendors demand them?<br>
<br>
I would guess that the European institutions have already been able to solve this, given the GDPR (which we in North America badly need too). How did you do it? What did you say to the vendors? Are there any "magic words" to get them to admit they don't need
all those attributes they are demanding from us?<br>
<br>
Melissa Belvadi<br>
Collections Librarian<br>
University of Prince Edward Island<br>
<a href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mbelvadi@upei.ca</a><<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA66b640e4-f7d1-fb14-2ef5-85bae2eddbd3" href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca</a>> 902-566-0581<br>
ORCID iD: 0000-0002-4433-0189<br>
my public calendar<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA87c25516-8a20-f1b8-12a9-0e1f373b2889" href="https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca/5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692/calendar.html" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office365.com%2Fowa%2Fcalendar%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%2F5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692%2Fcalendar.html&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086688957570%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gmNwbfzZo4cabRcY8%2BMXjT3zfyj1ki4wIm5V%2FrYebo4%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
My pronouns are ????/???????<br>
My emails are sent during the hours that I work and I understand that you will respond during the hours that you work.<br>
<br>
Make an appointment: Use YouCanBookMe <a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA389c9f32-9964-dc1a-5390-6997be38e7dc" href="https://mbelvadi.youcanbook.me/" target="_blank">
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or for other MS365 / Outlook users, including UPEI people:<br>
[cid:2d397b68-5ac1-4410-9e44-e6b36733a881]<<a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086688992214%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xorAc7Mvb%2Fs%2BuQcF%2FUvl0f3D8raudK6nbOIwxym6iGY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086688992214%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xorAc7Mvb%2Fs%2BuQcF%2FUvl0f3D8raudK6nbOIwxym6iGY%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
Book time to meet with me<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA08512b43-560f-f52f-aea2-97550fb0f696" href="https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689008178%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6lnSSEgzM2fGnZO5rsJS%2FDm7YvLV6MXuHgBeSEBQBj8%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:29:04 +0000<br>
From: Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list<br>
<<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
To: Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list<br>
<<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Eril-l] SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe<br>
don't need? data grab?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:mailman.814.1762792210.464759.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">mailman.814.1762792210.464759.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Many library workers do not understand that it is the library/university that controls the SSO attribute set that is released to the vendor. Our Cornell Library default SSO attribute set are these, none of which include name:<br>
<br>
EduPersonAffiliation<br>
EduPersonOrgDN<br>
EduPersonEntitlement<br>
EduPersonPrimaryaffiliation<br>
EduPersonScopedAffiliation<br>
transitID<br>
<br>
If vendor says they need personal data we push back and ask them why they need it for the service to function. Ideally these negotiations happen before the license is signed. We have a good working relationship with campus identity management unit. We did
a presentation last spring that describes some of our efforts to protect readers.<br>
<br>
Raub, Emma, Jesse Koennecke, and Adam Chandler. ?Cookies & PII: Baking: Values into Library Privacy.? Electronic Resources & Libraries 2025, Austin, TX, March 24, 2025.
<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA2f355dcb-0c26-b5af-ba28-85a9bd7b9965" href="https://hdl.handle.net/1813/116786" target="_blank">
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhdl.handle.net%2F1813%2F116786&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689065796%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gk6qolswbAWaWpRgqZjMNjFRWg%2Fkwh3NyESmA2l2%2FlA%3D&reserved=0</a>.<br>
<br>
I?m interested in hearing from others about their efforts to resist vendor moves to cash in on surveillance capitalism.<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
Adam Chandler<br>
Director, Automation, Assessment, and Post-Cataloging Services<br>
Library Technical Services<br>
Cornell University Library<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Eril-l <<a href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org</a>> On Behalf Of Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list via Eril-l<br>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2025 10:37 AM<br>
To: ERIL-L listserv <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Eril-l] SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't need? data grab?<br>
<br>
Hi, all.<br>
<br>
I'm still trying to understand what the vendor movements away from IP authentication and especially for off-campus users mean, and have gotten some help from Gemini.<br>
UPEI belongs to the Canadian Access Federation (CAF), and we use MS Azure as our SSO system for our IdP.<br>
<br>
As I understand it, all our vendors need to know about our users is the same as what they knew about them when using ezproxy for off-campus access, which is that this user has authenticated as a UPEI valid user.<br>
<br>
According to a sample test I ran, our IdP doesn't send out any specific attributes, but it does tell the service provider that this person is a valid UPEI person and provides a persistent "name" code that is anonymized.<br>
<br>
Below is how Gemini explained it:<br>
So, while the service provider learned nothing about your personal identity (not your name, role, or email), it learned everything it needs to know about your institutional context.<br>
By accepting this SAML assertion, the service provider is implicitly saying: "I have received a digitally signed, unforgeable message from the official authentication authority for UPEI, and that authority vouches for the fact that they have successfully authenticated
one of their valid users."<br>
This is the core of federated identity: authentication is handled entirely by the home institution. The service provider doesn't need to know who you are, only that UPEI has confirmed you are a legitimate member of its community.<br>
<br>
However, almost all of the library providers I have dealt with so far to configure SSO authentication have required us to take extra steps to provide them with more specific "attributes" like "eduPersonScopedAffiliation", and sometimes even PII (personally
identifiable information) including first and last name and email address.<br>
<br>
The vendor could use that persistent "pseudonym" code allow this specific UPEI user to create whatever kind of personalized account services (eg saving searches) that vendor's platform has.<br>
<br>
So it seems to my suspicious mind that our vendors are taking advantage of the move towards SSO to get from us far more user-specific data than they actually need to provide the services we are paying for. They didn't have a problem for decades with providing
their content to users who offered nothing more than our Ezproxy server's IP address. But suddenly they "need" PII to provide that same access?<br>
<br>
Is anyone/any library organization pushing back on this? What can we librarians do? Do we have to work with our IT depts to convince them to get their SAML/SSO providers (like Microsoft for Azure) to include more anonymizing options so we can send fake names
and email addresses when our vendors demand them?<br>
<br>
I would guess that the European institutions have already been able to solve this, given the GDPR (which we in North America badly need too). How did you do it? What did you say to the vendors? Are there any "magic words" to get them to admit they don't need
all those attributes they are demanding from us?<br>
<br>
Melissa Belvadi<br>
Collections Librarian<br>
University of Prince Edward Island<br>
<a href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mbelvadi@upei.ca</a><<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWAa16914fc-24f5-4e57-4c68-2e4d15fcf168" href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca</a>> 902-566-0581<br>
ORCID iD: 0000-0002-4433-0189<br>
my public calendar<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWAb608dbae-76ae-ec2f-ac03-dc30ec211b4d" href="https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca/5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692/calendar.html" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office365.com%2Fowa%2Fcalendar%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%2F5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692%2Fcalendar.html&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689088566%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2pZ%2BWm3mXP%2FnGY9nnRwDutuBBCZFuMRmZ2dMco21sU4%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
My pronouns are ????/???????<br>
My emails are sent during the hours that I work and I understand that you will respond during the hours that you work.<br>
<br>
Make an appointment: Use YouCanBookMe <a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA4fa286e1-04cf-d186-165d-0146a44dab64" href="https://mbelvadi.youcanbook.me/" target="_blank">
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmbelvadi.youcanbook.me%2F&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689109806%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LcvvHFcm%2FiuxqvhyyAeLuMHdqD%2FFD2U9xlKx3Wryj8A%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
or for other MS365 / Outlook users, including UPEI people:<br>
[cid:image001.png@01DC5233.B6B5A6C0]<<a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689125782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ysRExjFyXydiWx4FEg1fW2lXZUGy%2FGuPye7g3sil4Mc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689125782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ysRExjFyXydiWx4FEg1fW2lXZUGy%2FGuPye7g3sil4Mc%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
Book time to meet with me<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA38a2568d-02fc-5268-7e6d-ac1d111b72c8" href="https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foutlook.office.com%2Fbookwithme%2Fuser%2F0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6%40upei.ca%3Fanonymous%26ismsaljsauthenabled%26ep%3DbwmEmailSignature&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689141991%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WqSDYmpXrVx4NKbOxYwbAiIncIE1fI3nEcIHIxCphP0%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:48:07 +0000<br>
From: Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list<br>
<<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
To: ERIL-L listserv <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Eril-l] SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe<br>
don't need? data grab?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:mailman.825.1762793518.464758.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">mailman.825.1762793518.464758.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hello. This was part of the impetus for my "Licensing Privacy" work. You can find all the white papers and related webinars here:
<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA2837071d-7abd-8ac6-8848-a7f0b21c5bfb" href="https://publish.illinois.edu/licensingprivacy/" target="_blank">
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.illinois.edu%2Flicensingprivacy%2F&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689190239%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yC00V2g7M0AgRNncS%2BhmHoltHe3Q1zcffw%2BGWH3WHkk%3D&reserved=0</a> Unfortunately,
though there was a lot of interest, I'm not sure many libraries have privacy at the top of their priority stack. Lisa<br>
<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe<br>
<br>
Professor & Coordinator for Research Professional Development, University Library<br>
<br>
Affiliate Faculty, School of Information Sciences, Center for Social & Behavioral Science, European Union Center, & Center for Global Studies<br>
<br>
Library 434, University of Illinois, 1408 West Gregory Drive, Urbana, Illinois 61801<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:ljanicke@illinois.edu" target="_blank">ljanicke@illinois.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ljanicke@illinois.edu" target="_blank">ljanicke@illinois.edu</a>>, 217-333-1323 (v), 217-244-4358 (f)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Eril-l <<a href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org</a>> on behalf of Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list via Eril-l <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2025 9:37 AM<br>
To: ERIL-L listserv <<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Eril-l] SSO/SAML and attributes vendors want but maybe don't need? data grab?<br>
<br>
Hi, all.<br>
<br>
I'm still trying to understand what the vendor movements away from IP authentication and especially for off-campus users mean, and have gotten some help from Gemini.<br>
UPEI belongs to the Canadian Access Federation (CAF), and we use MS Azure as our SSO system for our IdP.<br>
<br>
As I understand it, all our vendors need to know about our users is the same as what they knew about them when using ezproxy for off-campus access, which is that this user has authenticated as a UPEI valid user.<br>
<br>
According to a sample test I ran, our IdP doesn't send out any specific attributes, but it does tell the service provider that this person is a valid UPEI person and provides a persistent "name" code that is anonymized.<br>
<br>
Below is how Gemini explained it:<br>
So, while the service provider learned nothing about your personal identity (not your name, role, or email), it learned everything it needs to know about your institutional context.<br>
By accepting this SAML assertion, the service provider is implicitly saying: "I have received a digitally signed, unforgeable message from the official authentication authority for UPEI, and that authority vouches for the fact that they have successfully authenticated
one of their valid users."<br>
This is the core of federated identity: authentication is handled entirely by the home institution. The service provider doesn't need to know who you are, only that UPEI has confirmed you are a legitimate member of its community.<br>
<br>
However, almost all of the library providers I have dealt with so far to configure SSO authentication have required us to take extra steps to provide them with more specific "attributes" like "eduPersonScopedAffiliation", and sometimes even PII (personally
identifiable information) including first and last name and email address.<br>
<br>
The vendor could use that persistent "pseudonym" code allow this specific UPEI user to create whatever kind of personalized account services (eg saving searches) that vendor's platform has.<br>
<br>
So it seems to my suspicious mind that our vendors are taking advantage of the move towards SSO to get from us far more user-specific data than they actually need to provide the services we are paying for. They didn't have a problem for decades with providing
their content to users who offered nothing more than our Ezproxy server's IP address. But suddenly they "need" PII to provide that same access?<br>
<br>
Is anyone/any library organization pushing back on this? What can we librarians do? Do we have to work with our IT depts to convince them to get their SAML/SSO providers (like Microsoft for Azure) to include more anonymizing options so we can send fake names
and email addresses when our vendors demand them?<br>
<br>
I would guess that the European institutions have already been able to solve this, given the GDPR (which we in North America badly need too). How did you do it? What did you say to the vendors? Are there any "magic words" to get them to admit they don't need
all those attributes they are demanding from us?<br>
<br>
Melissa Belvadi<br>
Collections Librarian<br>
University of Prince Edward Island<br>
<a href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mbelvadi@upei.ca</a><<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA8e834618-10fc-8da3-f53c-cf670f4ce439" href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca" target="_blank">mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca</a>> 902-566-0581<br>
ORCID iD: 0000-0002-4433-0189<br>
my public calendar<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA834b80ff-bc8a-06b0-bf6a-f39c65b8290e" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca/5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692/calendar.html__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9AOThqro$" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca/5fa60af92c6d451c9ddf90c0bb11e00f15552192987609852692/calendar.html__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9AOThqro$</a>><br>
My pronouns are ????/???????<br>
My emails are sent during the hours that I work and I understand that you will respond during the hours that you work.<br>
<br>
Make an appointment: Use YouCanBookMe <a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWAace2d541-2861-b4bf-66a7-5eafad6607d3" href="https://mbelvadi.youcanbook.me/" target="_blank">
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmbelvadi.youcanbook.me%2F&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689207245%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HeCdtSu34yM6kuiAmqhH2Oh7B0lYivPOKWVlJXWoAJ0%3D&reserved=0<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mbelvadi.youcanbook.me/__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9BGAKrRk$></a><br>
or for other MS365 / Outlook users, including UPEI people:<br>
[cid:2d397b68-5ac1-4410-9e44-e6b36733a881]<<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9emOOpko$" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9emOOpko$</a>><br>
Book time to meet with me<<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA2e352245-a703-ce89-1e0a-7582b32057ad" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9emOOpko$" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/0fbab27c909e4493be65313bd66d66b6@upei.ca?anonymous&ismsaljsauthenabled&ep=bwmEmailSignature__;!!DZ3fjg!-VRwLrVGNMHfCm7xFMjw34Hi3lP2qcO-At1crRZlVKanPqvHYPbtVoeuePR3_F0TTPuulaAGWR8ZIJj9emOOpko$</a>><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:24:55 -0400<br>
From: Electronic Resources in Libraries discussion list<br>
<<a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a><br>
Subject: [Eril-l] Primary Research Group has published the Survey of<br>
Library Science Faculty: Developments in Library Science Curriculum,<br>
ISBN 979-8-88517-320-9<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:mailman.830.1762806442.464759.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org" target="_blank">mailman.830.1762806442.464759.eril-l-eril-l.org@lists.eril-l.org</a>><br>
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<br>
This comprehensive study offers an in-depth look at how library science<br>
programs across the United States are evolving to meet emerging demand for<br>
new library science courses and curricula.<br>
<br>
*What?s Inside the Report?*<br>
<br>
Drawing on survey data from library science faculty at institutions of all<br>
ranks and sizes, the report explores current trends, challenges, and<br>
innovations in library science education. Readers will find:<br>
<br>
- Faculty perspectives on curriculum modernization, technology<br>
integration, and the balance between theory and practice.<br>
- Quantitative and qualitative insights into the ease of developing new<br>
courses, the demand for artificial intelligence (AI) content, and alignment<br>
with job market needs.<br>
- Breakdowns by institution type, enrollment, academic title, and more.<br>
<br>
*Five Key Findings from the Survey*<br>
<br>
1. *Strong Demand for AI in Curricula*<br>
Nearly 80% of faculty support offering a basic course in artificial<br>
intelligence, with a sizable minority already implementing such courses.<br>
However, 64% believe current AI coverage is insufficient, signaling a major<br>
area for growth.<br>
<br>
2. *Job Market Alignment Is a Priority*<br>
About 73% of respondents agree that library science curricula should more<br>
closely reflect professional requirements and job market demands,<br>
especially among mid-ranked programs and faculty teaching two courses.<br>
<br>
3. *Skills Gaps in Programming and Management*<br>
Programming and management skills are notably under-emphasized, with 44% of<br>
faculty indicating that programming is not taught enough and a similar<br>
share expressing concern about management training.<br>
<br>
4. *Experiential Learning and Technology Integration*<br>
Faculty across all tiers advocate for more hands-on, practice-based<br>
learning and greater integration of emerging technologies such as AI,<br>
blockchain, and cloud computing. Calls for curricular flexibility and<br>
modernization are widespread.<br>
<br>
5. *Equity and Inclusion Content Is Polarized*<br>
While nearly half of respondents feel equity issues are covered ?about<br>
right,? views diverge sharply by institution type and political<br>
orientation, with some calling for more emphasis and others for less.<br>
<br>
*Availability*<br>
<br>
To view an excerpt and table of contents, follow this link:<br>
<a id="m_-3296236911950794806m_-1639859527156637485OWA57d0121d-c2aa-c790-c900-a5b0e70bb2dd" href="https://primaryresearch.com/AddCart.aspx?ReportID=866" target="_blank">https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprimaryresearch.com%2FAddCart.aspx%3FReportID%3D866&data=05%7C02%7Czhaneille.green%40duke.edu%7Ce2dcbdf2d5ff46fb471f08de20a42e75%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638984086689256467%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=e47wp9fBZo6OFWA4hxoszj%2BsiklWBBMsbehN0uv0I8Y%3D&reserved=0</a>.<br>
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End of Eril-l Digest, Vol 132, Issue 7<br>
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