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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">We dropped a medium-sized consortial
      deal a few years ago.  The overall price was very small compared
      to the (massively inflated) cost of each individual title, but
      when we looked at the usage we found that our expected ILL
      requests for those titles would be less than some of our
      unsubscribed titles.  We ended up dropping the deal, subscribing
      to NONE of the titles from the package, and subscribing instead to
      several titles that had been very highly requested through ILL and
      taking the rest as budget savings.  Subsequent analysis shows that
      the canceled titles have received very few requests while the
      titles we took instead have received tremendous use.<br>
      <br>
      On the other hand, we had another consortial deal break last
      year.  We are currently trying to renegotiate a deal that's a
      better fit for our system.  In a deal this large, and with this
      much usage on the line, we do have concerns that turnaways will
      become problematic in the next few years as unsubscribed content
      in the front file grows (we had retained perpetual access to the
      subscribed years).  At our institution, we softened the blow
      somewhat by retaining a core group of highly-used titles.<br>
      <br>
      From our experience, in addition to echoing what others here have
      said, I can offer these suggestions:<br>
      <br>
      -- Be mindful of opportunity cost:  if you're on the fence over a
      big deal, look at what you're NOT buying.  Is there unsubscribed
      content that is costing you a lot in copyright clearance fees,
      document delivery, or just user convenience?  These costs may be
      hidden in a different budget line, depending on your
      organizational structure.  It may be worthwhile to break the deal
      and subscribe to new content instead.<br>
      <br>
      --ILL costs:  when breaking a deal, factor in the cost of not
      having access.  The longer you go without a subscription, the
      larger your inaccessible front file (where most usage occurs) will
      be, leading to an increase in requests (I imagine this levels off
      around the half-life of the average journal--the point is, don't
      go by the first year).  However, ILL requests and usage are not
      1:1.  We've found that perhaps 20% of usage turns into ILL
      requests--we suspect that the convenience factor of the big deal
      tends to inflate usage and the inconvenience of ILL discourages
      requests.<br>
      <br>
      --Monitor both ILL requests and turnaway reports for at least a
      few years after breaking a deal.  The two sets of data together
      can help you assess the overall impact.<br>
      <br>
      -- <br>
      Nikki DeMoville<br>
      Electronic Resources Coordinator<br>
      Robert E. Kennedy Library<br>
      California Polytechnic State University<br>
      San Luis Obispo, CA 93407<br>
      <br>
      email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ndemovil@calpoly.edu">ndemovil@calpoly.edu</a><br>
      ph: 805-756-5780 fax: 805-756-7711 <br>
      <br>
      On 11/9/2015 9:41 AM, Karen Jensen wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAE62Hf5qWPTwRvW4C1rKdUBsZB=Xhs68d5twKRJZ=pH_WB6Ucg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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      <div dir="ltr">We are about to break up a number of big deals,
        despite getting pretty decent use of the non-subscribed titles.
        We simply no longer have a choice. If the vendors can come up
        with a new offer we can afford, great. If not, we'll have
        unhappy patrons, but there simply is not a choice; the funding
        isn't there any more. 
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I looked carefully at all our big deals, and have a pretty
          good sense of the new "core" which is a bit different than our
          subscription titles. One package in particular gives us
          amazing return for the money; based on use statistics it's
          pretty clear that we don't really have 120 "core" titles, but
          more like 350. But we can't afford those subscriptions,
          regardless of cost-per-use.</div>
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          <div class="gmail_signature">
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                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Karen Jensen<br>
                        Collection Development Officer<br>
                        Rasmuson Library<br>
                        University of Alaska Fairbanks<br>
                      </div>
                      907-474-6695<br>
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:kljensen@alaska.edu"
                          target="_blank">kljensen@alaska.edu</a></div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://library.uaf.edu/news-take-survey-win-amazon-gift-card"
                            target="_blank">***Are you a UAF faculty
                            member or student? Fill out our library
                            survey today!</a></b><br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
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        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 8:33 AM, Ian
          Gibson <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:igibson@brocku.ca" target="_blank">igibson@brocku.ca</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Agree
                    with Melissa and IMO the smaller you are the more
                    sense the big deals make (if you can afford them).</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We
                    broke a consortially brokered big deal last year
                    when the Canadian Dollar tanked. After making some
                    other more strategic cancellations this year, we
                    were hoping to rejoin that deal through the
                    consortium but at a price closer to what our closest
                    peer comparators were paying (for this particular
                    deal our historic spend was higher than our peers).
                    Not surprisingly, the publisher wasn’t interested in
                    playing ball on that, as it wouldn’t be fair to the
                    other consortia members who’ve stuck with the deal.
                    Our decision was to reinstate the bare minimum
                    number of subscriptions* which should reduce our
                    expenditure with this publisher by about 55%.
                  </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We
                    remain amenable to rejoining the big deal if the
                    publisher ever develops a pricing model that has
                    like institutions paying like prices.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
                    do not anticipate that this will please our users,
                    who have become accustomed to the all you can eat
                    big deal smorgasbord, but the bottom line is that
                    this will provide us with budget flexibility for the
                    next few years to improve funding to the things that
                    matter – Special Collections, OA, Data, etc.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">*in
                    this case it will be about 35 titles decided by use
                    (so mostly social sciences) – I could have easily
                    made a case for about 100 other titles but the goal
                    here was cost reduction.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                      lang="EN-US">Ian Gibson</span></b><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">, </span><span
                    style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
                    MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">MISt<br>
                  </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">Collections Librarian<br>
                    Brock University | James A. Gibson Library<br>
                    Niagara Region  |  500 Glenridge Ave.  |  St.
                    Catharines, Ontario  L2S 3A1</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:#585858;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US"><br>
                  </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">E</span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:#585858;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">
                  </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:#cc0000;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:igibson@brocku.ca" target="_blank"><span
                        style="color:#0563c1">igibson@brocku.ca</span></a></span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:#585858;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">
                  </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif";color:black;background:white"
                    lang="EN-US">| T  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="tel:905%20688%205550%20%C2%A0x6223"
                      value="+19056885550" target="_blank">905 688 5550
                       x6223</a>  | @IanGibson11</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"
                    lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
                    MS","sans-serif";color:#706f6f;background:white">Confidentiality
                    Notice: This e-mail, including any attachments, may
                    contain confidential or privileged information. If
                    you are not the intended recipient, please notify
                    the sender by e-mail and immediately delete this
                    message and its contents.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
                    lang="EN-US"> Eril-l [mailto:<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org"
                      target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org">eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org</a></a>]
                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Melissa Belvadi<br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2015 11:33 AM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Harker, Karen<br>
                    <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org"
                      target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>;
                    Colleen A McGhee-French<br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Eril-l] Is Breaking Up THAT
                    Hard to Do?</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
                        was just at the Charleston Conference where I
                        heard a member of the audience at one session
                        complain about having to pay for unused titles
                        in a Big Deal package.</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
                        thought it reflected a lack of understanding of
                        what a Big Deal actually is.</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">So
                        I want to emphasize something Karen says here:
                        "when we calculated the alternative of
                        subscribing to the most used titles, would be
                        more economical to split up".</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Whenever
                        I've done an analysis on our Big Deals that are
                        based on historic spend, I find that the titles
                        in our "core" (the basis for our price) are
                        indeed by far the most heavily used. And the
                        smaller price we pay for "'all of the rest" is
                        still very cost effective to have access to that
                        long tail. That is, our cost per full text
                        article used in the long tail is still well
                        within our internal threshold for renewing
                        journals, either in packages or individually.</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
                        important point here is to actually do that
                        analysis, and don't think of the titles in the
                        package that you don't use as "wasted money".  </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">You
                        are paying a pittance per "all the rest" journal
                        relative to their retail cost exactly because
                        your use of them is expected to be very low and
                        take the form of that "long tail" distribution.</span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Melissa
                        Belvadi</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:24
                      PM, Harker, Karen <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:Karen.Harker@unt.edu"
                        target="_blank">Karen.Harker@unt.edu</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">We’ve been going through this
                              process for the last several years.  We
                              evaluated every journal package in terms
                              of overall use, overall cost-per-use, cost
                              per title, CPU for each title,
                              distribution of use across titles (as in
                              80% of uses were for what % of titles),
                              and the list-price CPU. 
                            </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">There were some packages
                              which were clearly not good deals.  These
                              were packages where the distribution of
                              usage across titles was very limited (80%
                              of uses were from < 15% of titles), and
                              which, when we calculated the alternative
                              of subscribing to the most used titles,
                              would be more economical to split up. 
                            </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">There were other packages
                              which clearly
                              <i>were</i> a good deal – low overall CPU,
                              high distribution of usage across titles,
                              and, most importantly, they were
                              affordable.  These we continued.</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">Then there are those packages
                              which were a good deal, but were
                              unaffordable to continue.  These were the
                              biggest of the big deals.  These were the
                              hardest to cut.  By any measure,
                              attempting to subscribe to the
                              better-performing titles individually
                              would have exceeded the cost of the
                              package.  But, taken as a single source of
                              expenditures, they were unsustainable.  It
                              was only after making these cuts (and
                              explaining our intention to have to cut
                              the biggest of the big deals) that the
                              library was appropriated more funds.  But
                              this is only temporary…no more than 3
                              years.  This decision will have to be
                              revisited.  </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">The point it, breaking up a
                              well-performing package is very, very hard
                              to do.  At some point, you have to cut
                              titles that have very low CPU’s or
                              otherwise are a good value.  It’s like
                              getting very heavy mortgage at a very low
                              rate.  Yes, it’s a good deal, but if you
                              don’t have the money in the budget, you
                              have to pass on it.</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">Karen Harker</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US">Collection Assessment
                              Librarian</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="tel:940-565-2688" target="_blank">940-565-2688</a></span><span
                              lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://librariesareforuse.wordpress.com/"
                                target="_blank">Libraries are for Use</a></span><span
                              lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calisto
                              MT","serif";color:#44546a"
                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
                                lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
                              lang="EN-US"> Eril-l [mailto:<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org"
                                target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org">eril-l-bounces@lists.eril-l.org</a></a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Colleen A
                              McGhee-French<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 09, 2015
                              10:05 AM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:eril-l@lists.eril-l.org"
                                target="_blank">eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> [Eril-l] Is Breaking Up
                              THAT Hard to Do?</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi
                                all,</span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">I tried searching the
                                      archives of this list, but perhaps
                                      I am not doing it correctly. I
                                      couldn't find any discussion of
                                      the idea of/implementation
                                      of/success with breaking up
                                      journal packages. </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">Yet I would think we
                                      all have them - huge, huge journal
                                      packages, each containing more
                                      than 1200 or so journals, only a
                                      fraction of which are
                                      important/used - sometimes very
                                      important/highly used, each also
                                      containing hundreds of journals
                                      that we're paying for that have
                                      not been used in the last several
                                      years, at least to our knowledge. </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">Has your institution
                                      thought about this? Tried it?
                                      Succeeded/failed at it, and why?
                                      What were the largest obstacles to
                                      success?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">Or has your
                                      institution thought about it and
                                      figured, Hey - the very important
                                      journals are used SO MUCH that the
                                      package overall is actually fairly
                                      economical and that <i>those</i>
                                      are the journals to concentrate on
                                      (rather than the huge number of
                                      unused journals)?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">Thoughts?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      lang="EN-US">Colleen</span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        Eril-l mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org"
                          target="_blank">Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org</a></p>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    <br clear="all">
                  </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Melissa Belvadi</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Collections Librarian</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">University of Prince Edward
                          Island</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:mbelvadi@upei.ca"
                            target="_blank">mbelvadi@upei.ca</a> <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="tel:902-566-0581" value="+19025660581"
                            target="_blank">902-566-0581</a></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Eril-l mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org">Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org"
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Eril-l mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org">Eril-l@lists.eril-l.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org">http://lists.eril-l.org/listinfo.cgi/eril-l-eril-l.org</a>
</pre>
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